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Alex: For every person heaven is the place where he was orn. My native town is my heaven
Robin: Hey, sorry for the cheeky ad on your page, but its for charity!! Am trying to draw as much attention to my charity site, with loads of amazing signed items up for auction. Come along and have a look :) Thanks Rx
Morangi: That is avery good quote by G>B> Shaw.Thanks for sharing it
morangi: Thanks for that GBS's words
corina: Hi...It's been nice to drop by and visit again. It's been a long time. God bless
Dee: Congratulations on being in the Bravenet Community Spotlight! Your blog is very inspirational and informative.
Morangi: Nice blog, will be coming around
Paul Brahler: Greetings!
LWM: Blessing to you and your life, theres a new ALB post at my place
LWM: New Message shared by The ALBs read it if you want to ignore it if you like, its your choice
grace: If victory is certain then even a coward can fight, But the real brave is the one who still dares to fight when his defeat is certain.
LWM: WOW thas\nks for the heads up on the youtube video, i LOVE IT! I went to the page and aked to be added as a friend, wonderful music
LWM: New helping posts at my place for those sad, hurting, feeling alone and dealing with old wounds
LWM: Hey How ya doing Havent been by my site for awhile. I got a new post up you may want to read. Hope you have A BLESSED Week
Storm: Great reading and study, but takes me a lot longer when I make my own whipped cream for the coffee. thanks so much for your desire to increase us in knowledge and understanding of God's word.
Storm: This is a great site Dr. C. thanks for sharing the link
LWM: Greetings and Blessed Day to you, there is a new communication with the ALBs if your interested.
LWM : Blessings to you. Come check out the new Faery pictures at my blog when you can
Roselle: hello! just stopping by to greet you happy easter...tc!
Connie: Happy Easter !
LWM: New Angle Like Beings blog entry, its has changed my life in a positive way. Come read when you can maybe it will aid you as well in these hard times
LWM: Come Visit when you can My gift will be in the mail on Tuesday so keep an eye out. Bless you dear friend
Vivianight: Just coming by to wish you a Good Morning, Dr Denis, as well as let you know I’m still here and reading...and so glad you are still online and writing. Love to you and Marti.Cheers,Melissa
Dougall: Greetings from London, UK. Nice blog!!
Kerri: Happy Birthday. - that is a very neat looking cake!
Lady Wolfen mMsts: I havent forgotten you or your wonderful wife my friend, just fighting to stay alive. Seems the darkness is telling me to end it all.... Yet I have not forgotten you or my word, I will get the rest of it out to you by the end of this month. Bless you and keep you both
Vivianight: Hello Dr Denis and Marti. Thank you for the tea, in truth, it is one of my favorite blends. Cheers!
Vivianight: Hi Dr. D, welcome back, am returned myself. Wish more folks had read your jot on Judgment. Ha. Inundated here, will return and read thoroughly ASAP. Missed it. Cheers and let the Irish coffee flow! Melissa P.S. Did a post called "Be the Gentle Reed" you may enjoy. ~M~
lutchi: blog hoppin`..neat blog u have here.
viagralefemme: good wok!!!
LWM: Wishing you special blessing this week. Stop by my place when you get a chance new post you might find interesting p.s. sent you another e-mail let me know when you get it
LWM: Please check your e-mail as I sent you one. I will await your return e-mail please
corina: Hey Denis, just wanted to let you know I've set the wheels back in motion to go to school for F/T ministry... (Hope I'm doing the right thing... )
Sharon: Going here and there in the blogging world.. I hear good things about you Denis!! Praise God \0/ This place continued to be blessed and your heart strengthened as you do His good will!!
Vivianight: Greetings, Dr D.Darby O’Gill and the Little People rocks! LOL Cheers,
Dauphine: Hi Dr. How are you? I am passing through here, making my round and thought of you though. Take care and God BLess!
LWM: Hi, Dropping by to check in on you I have a new post from the Angel Like Beings if you’re interested drop by
Nina: Hi blog hopping here in your nice blog. I would love to be your blogger friend. Would you care to exchange links? My name is Nina
Dauphine: Hi good morning! How are you dear friend? Hope things are well for you. I just read your new entry and it is really interesting. I will come back to read more. Take care and God Bless!
Ravi Philemon: Just checking in...Come check us out at http://www.lifeblog.co.nr/
LWM: Come see bath day at our house
corina: Hi Dennis. How rude of me...Please accept my apologies: all I had left was De-caf and it just doesn't do the trick! ... For YOU:
Carol: I enjoyed visiting your site again. God bless you!
Dauphine: Hi Dr. How are you? dropping by here checking on you. Hope things are well for you. Take care and God Bless!
night_Pirate522: been a long time no? hope all is well with you!
Dauphine: Hi Dr. Im dropping by to say hello! Hope things are doing well for you there. Take care and God Bless!
Allan: Hi Dr. H4DenisYou will find the answer in the Revealed Study Notes at: http://www.milleniums.org

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September 17, 2007

5:42 PM

the are two sides

to every pancake

pancake

Gentle Reader,

It seems there is good news and then better news. Just when I thought that I had run out of the wherewithal to keep going on the "net" this blog has had a reprieve.  A dear sweet loyal reader came forward and felt that I could say a few more things about God, the universe, love, grace (but I really think is with the great coffee and Irish cream cheese muffins that won the day)! And to celebrate I want you to think about the role of women and their leadership not only in the home and in the political scene but in my bayliwick "the Church" But before I give my views I want you to see both sides of the pancake. So here's one side.  

 Please find a article that will get your blood pressure up (maybe, or not) In any case this issue needs to be addressed Where do you stand on leadership for women?

Is There Such a Thing as a Complegalitarian?
Mark L. Strauss
Bethel Seminary, San Diego

One of the most divisive issues in the evangelical church over the past few decades has been the discussion surrounding the role of women and men in the church and the home. This debate pits “complementarians,” who believe that men and women have distinct God-given roles in the church and the home, against “egalitarians,” who believe that the new age of salvation in Christ means full equality of gifts, calling and church office. Complementarians point especially to 1 Timothy 2:11-15, where Paul tells Timothy that he does not allow women to teach or exercise authority over men. Egalitarians point to Galatians 3:28, where Paul says that former divisions based on ethnicity (Jew and Gentile), social status (slave and free), and gender (male and female) have been overcome “in Christ.”

This brief essay is not an attempt to solve the issue. Not even close. If you are interested in pursuing it, there are many excellent books that argue convincingly for one side or the other. See especially the “manifestos” for both positions: Discovering Biblical Equality (eds. Pierce and Groothuis; egalitarian) and Recovering Biblical Manhood and Womanhood (eds. Piper and Grudem; complementarian). If you can’t afford these, get both views in one handy volume with the excellent Two Views on Women in Ministry (eds. Beck and Blomberg).

So what are we to do with this issue? I am in print and on record as a complementarian. I remain in this camp because it seems to me that God has made women and men to be different. Men naturally gravitate more toward assertive leadership roles, while women tend toward more supportive and nurturing ones. This tendency seems to me confirmed not only biblically, but also biologically. Social-scientific studies, as well as a mountain of anecdotal evidence, indicate that men and women are different in the way they think and interact with others. And different gifts and skills translate naturally into different social roles.

Although I remain a complementarian, I have been accused on more than one occasion of being a “closet” egalitarian. I’m not unhappy with that description. One of my colleagues calls himself a “complegalitarian.” That’s not bad. If you asked the women I work with if I am supportive of their gifts and calling, I’m pretty sure they would say “yes.” If you asked them whether they feel their opinions and perspectives are highly valued and respected, I think you’d get the same answer. I have never told a woman she should not teach, or that she should not fulfill a pastoral role, or that she should not become ordained or move into a position of leadership. I believe that is between her and God. When it comes to using people for his purpose, it doesn’t seem to me God ever limits his options. If God could speak to Balaam through a donkey, if God could deliver Israel through a whiner like Moses, if God could turn the world upside down with a bunch of faith-challenged disciples, indeed, if God can use me with all my failings, then it would be pretty arrogant to say that God can’t use anyone he chooses.

Although I believe God usually calls men to leadership roles, there have been many exceptions both biblically and historically. Take Deborah for example (Judg. 4-5). I have heard complementarians claim that Deborah was really just a counselor, giving private advice to those who came to her (move over Dr. Laura). This seems to me special pleading. The judges in Israel were leaders, and Deborah clearly exercised political as well as judicial leadership. Or take Priscilla, a gifted New Testament teacher who is usually named ahead of her husband Aquila. This is likely because of her more prominent teaching and leadership role. The claim by some that she only privately instructed Apollos while under the authority of her husband seems to me a desperate attempt to deny that God ever uses women in leadership roles. Or take Phoebe (Rom. 16:1), or Junia (Rom. 16:7) or the thousands of women who have served throughout history in leadership and teaching roles in the church and on the mission field.

How do I square this perspective with 1 Timothy 2:11-15 and the (few) other texts that deal with this issue? First Timothy, like all New Testament letters, is situational and was written to address a specific situation in the church in Ephesus. If Paul’s statements here were absolute, why would we find apparent exceptions elsewhere in the New Testament, and especially throughout history? It seems Paul is applying a general principle —men should lead and teach—to a specific historical situation. Paul wants men to lead in the church, because churches are dysfunctional if they don’t have strong male leadership. Does that mean that there can be no female leadership? This is where I would differ from many of my complementarian friends.

The women’s movement—both in secular society and in the church—did not arise in a vacuum. It arose in contexts where women’s voices were not heard or respected. It arose in churches where gifts and callings were ignored or demeaned. It arose in places where women who were gifted in leadership and teaching were told to sit down, shut up, and defer to their (sometimes much less gifted) male counterparts. We need to address these issues first, before we start telling women what they can and cannot do.

As a seminary professor, I preach in a lot of churches and work with a lot of pastors. I also see many churches in crisis, often losing staff and sometimes splitting. But I have never seen a church in crisis because a woman was trying to assert her authority over a man. Rather, the causes are always the same: pride, self-centeredness, desire for control, an inability to get along with others. And in almost every case, males are the primary offenders. The greatest danger to our churches is not creeping feminism, it is human sin and our inability to humbly submit in love to one another. When we start valuing and loving one another like Christ loved the church, I am convinced that these struggles over church leadership will disappear. I don’t see women clamoring to take over the church. I see them looking for the opportunity to exercise their gifts and calling as equals in the body of Christ.

As you face this difficult issue in your church, ask yourself these questions: "Do the women in this congregation feel their gifts and calling are ignored or neglected? Do they feel their voices and opinions are not heard or valued? Do they ever feel like second-class citizens? If you get even a hint of a “yes” to these questions, it’s time to examine the style of leadership that is modeled in your church body. In the radical new leadership paradigm Jesus proposed, the last become first, and to lead you must serve, “for even the Son of Man came not to be served, but to serve, and to give his life a ransom for many” (Mark 10:45).

Thanks to your dear gentle Readers for coming to my rescue (I wont let you down)

Love, Denis

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